The Roots for Churches podcast

Melanie Cave speaks with Dr. Jared Neusch about the hard parts of the Moses story—the plagues, the death of the Egyptian firstborn, and the parting of the sea resulting in the death of the Egyptian army—and how to approach these passages with children and congregations, without flattening its tension. Jared explains why he starts with Jesus as the clearest revelation of God, then works back into the Old Testament with that lens in place. They also unpack how Passover foreshadows Jesus, why modern readers get stuck on historicity, and how to talk with kids honestly about troubling Bible stories without giving them a shallow or deceptive faith.
Key topics
In this episode, Jared shares how his view of God changed through rethinking the cross, especially moving away from a penal substitution framework and toward the cross as revelation of God’s love and humanity’s violence.
Melanie and Jared discuss why Exodus still grips Christian imagination, since it is a foundational liberation story that the New Testament keeps echoing.
They wrestle with the hardest part of Exodus for modern readers—the divine violence, especially the death of the firstborn and the drowning of the Egyptian army.
Jared argues that Jesus must be the interpretive starting point, not a later add-on, if we want to read Exodus faithfully.
They explore several ways Christians try to make sense of these texts, including progressive revelation, allegory, genre awareness, and ancient war rhetoric.
Melanie raises the concern that many modern readers demand historical precision in a way ancient storytelling did not always intend.
Jared explains why he thinks it is important not to smooth over the text’s brutality, especially when teaching children.
They discuss how to avoid setting kids up for future deconstruction by giving them overly neat answers too early.
Jared describes a simple child-friendly approach: ask whether a story sounds like Jesus, and if not, use Jesus as the lens for interpretation.
They connect Passover to Jesus through images of blood, deliverance, crossing waters, the defeat of evil, and Moses as a partial Christ figure.
Melanie and Jared reflect on how the story of deliverance still requires participation—the Israelites have to walk through the sea, just as Christians still participate in discipleship.
They close by contrasting the instinct to want God to destroy enemies with Jesus’ way of enemy-love, suffering, and radical inclusion.
Chapters
00:00 – Introducing the challenge of Exodus violence for adults and children01:04 – Jared’s background and how he came to peacemaking and enemy love02:14 – Rethinking the cross as the turning point in theology03:38 – The Sermon on the Mount and the cross as the same way of life04:53 – Why the Exodus story still matters in Christian imagination05:57 – Exodus as a critical part of the biblical story of deliverance08:03 – Why Exodus becomes harder when Jesus is the interpretive center09:38 – The problem of Pharaoh’s oppression and God’s judgment on Egypt11:15 – Divine hardening and the drowning of the Egyptian army12:35 – Why the violence in Exodus clashes with the cross14:31 – Owning what the text actually says instead of smoothing it over16:43 – Starting with Christ rather than building theology elsewhere first19:13 – Scripture as a journey of learning what God is like21:11 – Allegorical readings and the church fathers23:12 – Why modern readers struggle with story, fact, and historical proof24:51 – Genre, ancient context, and war rhetoric28:10 – Why divine command theory does not persuade Jared29:04 – Bringing the question back to children and the Passover story30:32 – Why some children will notice the moral problem immediately32:01 – Not pretending troubling stories are harmless34:47 – Telling kids “I don’t know” and leaving room for mystery36:47 – Passover as a foreshadowing of Jesus38:17 – Symbols in blood, baptism, and the defeat of evil41:08 – Moses as insider and outsider, like a Christ figure42:31 – Foreshadowing, motifs, and narrative echoes across Scripture43:13 – Deliverance that still requires participation44:42 – Wanting God to fight our enemies, and Jesus flipping the script46:41 – Christian nationalism and the instinct to put God on our side48:22 – The answer is reading Jesus and testing every ethic by his life51:32 – Teaching Exodus in conversation with Jesus, not in isolation52:53 – A simple child-friendly method: “Does that sound like God to you?”55:44 – The danger of imagining Jesus has an angry father56:54 – How the cross shapes the way people read the Old Testament58:41 – A shorter account of a different reading of the cross59:21 – Penal substitution versus the cross as human violence and divine revelation62:43 – Moses as a partial, imperfect foretaste of Christ64:21 – Wrapping up the wrestling and the need to keep asking questions65:08 – Jared’s children’s books and why they spark real conversations
Notable quotes
“How do we know what God is like? Jesus.”
 
“On the cross, it is not primarily appeasing God, it is revealing God.”
 
“If I pretend it isn’t there, I’m setting them up to undo it later.”
 
Key frameworks
Jesus as the interpretive center for all Scripture
Progressive revelation
Allegorical reading
Ancient war rhetoric and genre awareness
The cross as revelation rather than appeasement
Passover as pattern and foreshadowing
Show Notes

Melanie Cave speaks with Will van der Hart about what churches can learn from crisis response in moments like the 7/7 bombings and the Grenfell Tower fire. The conversation focuses on trauma, presence, and the long-term pastoral work needed when a community is shaken by grief, distrust, and loss. There. ispractical guidance on ways churches and leaders can prepare Will shares hard-won insight from years of ministry and emergency response, including why the church must resist the urge to fix everything, why timing matters in trauma care, and how presence can be a form of faithful resistance.
Key words
crisis response, church, critical event planning, death, mortality, trauma, presence, pastoral care, grief, trust, boundaries, resilience, community, collaboration, Grenfell Tower fire, 7/7 bombing, leadership
Chapters
00:00 – Introduction: what churches learn from crisis
00:31 – Lessons from 7/7 and emergency response
01:32 – Grenfell, trauma, and community mistrust
03:02 – Why rushed help can do harm
05:22 – Trust, relationships, and local credibility
10:30 – The emotional cost of caring
14:02 – Presence, boundaries, and long-term support
21:08 – Why presence matters more than fixing
33:48 – Presence as rebellion; called, not driven
42:31 – Preparation, partnerships, and planning ahead
 
Show Notes:
www.rootsforchurches.com
Will's article https://www.rootsforchurches.com/worship-and-learning-support/articles/responding-to-community-crisis
Clergy Support Trust https://www.clergysupport.org.uk/

Suicide prevention starts far earlier than most churches realise. In this episode, Melanie Cave speaks with Bejoy Pal of Ascension Trust, the organisation behind Street Pastors, Rail Pastors and Bridge Watch, about how Christian volunteers are supporting people in crisis through simple presence, listening and practical care.
Bejoy shares how Street Pastors began in response to youth violence and has grown into a nationwide movement serving communities on streets and in town centres. He explains how Rail Pastors emerged after British Transport Police identified gaps in support for vulnerable people at stations, and how Bridge Watch is now working to prevent suicides around waterways and bridges.
At the heart of each initiative is a simple approach: care, listen and help. Rather than confronting people, volunteers build trust through conversation, compassion and partnership with local authorities and police. Bejoy describes this collaboration as the ‘urban trinity’ of church, council and police working together for community wellbeing.
The conversation also explores the wider factors that contribute to suicide risk, including loneliness, isolation, unemployment, financial pressure and relationship breakdown. Bejoy highlights the particular challenges faced by men, many of whom feel unable to speak openly about their struggles.
For churches, the message is clear: create spaces where people can be honest, leaders can model vulnerability, and difficult conversations are welcomed rather than avoided. Bejoy argues that asking direct questions about suicide does not increase risk. Instead, it can open the door to support, hope and recovery.
He also shares a powerful Bridge Watch case study showing how timely intervention, practical support and ongoing care helped one man move from crisis towards stability and hope.
This episode offers valuable insights for church leaders, pastoral teams and anyone seeking to build communities where people feel seen, heard and supported.
Key Topics
The story behind Street Pastors, Rail Pastors and Bridge Watch.
How churches, councils and police can work together to support vulnerable people.
Why presence and listening are often more powerful than having the right answers.
The connection between suicide risk, loneliness, isolation and life pressures.
Why men are often less likely to seek help.
Creating church cultures where people can speak honestly about mental health and suicide.
Practical steps churches can take to support those in crisis.
A real-life example of intervention, referral and recovery through Bridge Watch.
Key Frameworks
Urban Trinity: Church, local authority and police working together.
Care, Listen, Help: The guiding approach of Street Pastors.
Ministry of Presence: Being available, listening well and offering support.
Creating Space for Mess: Allowing people to be honest without judgement.
Hope Carriers: Christians helping others find a way forward through crisis.
Notable Quotes
“The most important question that you can ever ask anybody is, ‘Tell me your story.’”
“I want to create space for mess.”
“We’re there to care, listen, and help.”
Action Points
Make space for genuine conversations beyond ‘How are you?’
Model vulnerability in leadership.
Learn how to ask direct questions about suicidal thoughts appropriately.
Build relationships with local safeguarding, police and community organisations.
Support those carrying significant pastoral responsibilities.
Explore volunteering with Street Pastors, Rail Pastors or Bridge Watch.
Chapters
00:00 Suicide prevention and the church’s response01:05 Bejoy’s journey into community ministry03:32 What Street Pastors do05:46 Training, safety and partnership working11:14 The origins of Rail Pastors13:13 Loneliness, pressure and suicide risk16:46 Creating space for honest conversation21:26 The ministry of presence24:54 Starting Rail Pastors locally27:22 Bridge Watch: origins and impact37:11 What churches can do upstream43:28 Prayer for churches and communities
Show Notes
Bridge Watch
Ascension Trust to find out more about Rail Pastors and Street PAstors
Roots for Churches
Samaritans
 

Melanie Cave speaks with Justin Brierley about the surprising shift from New Atheism to renewed openness toward Christianity. Justin shares how his own faith journey began in a churchgoing family and became personal as a teenager, before intellectual questions at Oxford and years in broadcasting led him deeper into Christian apologetics. Together, they explore why the culture has changed, why thinkers like Tom Holland and Jordan Peterson have helped reopen the God question, and why many people now seem less interested in arguments alone and more drawn to meaning, identity, and belonging. The conversation also looks at Gen Z’s spiritual openness, the limits of cultural Christianity without Christ at the center, and how churches can respond with confidence, imagination, and real community.
Key words
New Atheism, Christianity, Gen Z, faith, evangelism, culture, identity, meaning, belonging, church community Key topics Justin’s journey from church background to personal faith The rise and decline of New Atheism Why Christianity is gaining credibility again Cultural Christianity vs real discipleship Gen Z, identity, and spiritual hunger Why churches should lead with imagination and community
Chapters
00:00 Intro
01:32 Justin’s faith journey
04:02 Why New Atheism faded
09:33 Christianity’s renewed appeal
14:32 Cultural Christianity vs real faith
17:35 Why Christianity should be desirable
23:15 Why Gen Z is more open
26:03 Identity and social media pressure
30:45 How churches should respond
33:39 Keep Christianity weird
38:29 Church as real community
45:07 Belonging before believing
 
Show notes
Justin's article in the Roots Reimaginging Evanglism series 
https://justinbrierley.com/
www.rootsforchurches.com
 

Melanie Cave speaks with Peter about his book Collaborative Sermons and the Living Stories approach to preaching, where sermons become facilitated conversations rather than one-way monologues. They explore how this emerged from St. Gregory of Nyssa Episcopal Church in San Francisco, why it fits intergenerational worship, and how it changes what a congregation can hear, remember, and carry into the week. They also discuss trust, authority, silence, children’s contributions, and how to keep the conversation open without losing theological depth or pastoral care.
Key topics
In this episode, Peter shares the backstory of Living Stories, which began during the pandemic when his parish regathered through Godly Play and Eucharist in a parking lot. The sermon format moved from children’s formation into adult Sunday worship by using the actual lectionary text, wondering questions, and visual anchors for the whole congregation. Melanie and Peter unpack what makes a sermon a conversation rather than a monologue, and why that requires the preacher to become a facilitator instead of an orator. Peter explains the importance of mirroring back what people say so quieter voices, especially children, are heard clearly and valued in the room. They discuss how to respond to off-base, strange, or theologically awkward comments without shutting people down, but instead gently “retraining the vine.” Children’s contributions are presented as a strength, not a distraction, because they often give adults fresher, more visceral ways to hear Scripture. The conversation frames intergenerational worship as radical hospitality, especially in light of Jesus’ teaching about welcoming children. Peter argues that collaborative preaching answers modern suspicion of institutional authority by leaning into relational authority and shared discernment. They talk through the learning curve for churches, including how to start with turn-and-talk, wondering questions, and experimental Sundays. Peter also addresses practical concerns like phones, AI, analog worship spaces, visibility, microphones, and when not to rely on screens.
Chapters
00:00 - Why Peter was invited and what Living Stories is
00:38 - Pandemic beginnings at St. Gregory of Nyssa and the parking lot Eucharist
02:04 - From experimentation to a named sermon practice
03:13 - What Godly Play looks like in adult Sunday worship
04:06 - Using the lectionary text and tailoring wondering questions
05:29 - Why the questions begin with empathy and move toward theological reflection
06:23 - How multiple good-news takeaways deepen connection in the congregation
07:39 - Sermon as conversation instead of monologue
08:41 - The preacher’s shift from orator to facilitator
09:11 - Trusting local congregations to adapt the scripts
Key frameworks
Living Stories - Peter’s collaborative sermon format built around wondering questions and shared interpretation.
Wondering questions - Open questions that move from empathy to reflection to personal and communal takeaway.
Trust - Trusting scripture, the congregation, and the Holy Spirit rather than controlling the outcome.
Relational authority - Authority grounded in relationship and facilitation rather than institutional status alone.
Radical hospitality - Treating children and adults alike as full participants in worship.
 
Show Notes
www.rootsforchurches.com
To buy Peter's book: UK: https://www.eden.co.uk/christian-books/the-church/preaching/collaborative-sermons-a-guide-to-authentic-interactive-worship-through-living-stories/
In Australia: https://www.dymocks.com.au/collaborative-sermons-by-peter-levenstrong-9781640659193
In North America: https://churchpublishing.org/products/9781640659193-collaborative-sermons
 

Melanie Cave speaks with the Reverend Dr. Dave Bookless about the new Feast of Creation in Christ (Creation Sunday), the church’s environmental conversion, and how scripture and theology can inspire faithful stewardship of the planet.
They discuss the history of creation care in the church, biblical perspectives on new creation and eschatology, practical ways churches can celebrate and engage during Creation Time, and how to sustain hope and local impact amid climate fatigue.
Discover how the church can deepen its connection to environmental stewardship and explore practical steps for integrating creation care into faith.
Key topics
Dave’s personal eco-conversion experience sparked by a moment on a small island questioning how God might feel about human impact on the earth
The biblical basis for eco-theology, highlighting the book of Job’s creation theology and the importance of understanding our dependence on creation
The global growth of A Rocha since 1983, blending conservation efforts with teaching the church about biblical environmental responsibility
The historical shift in church focus from creation to personal salvation during the Enlightenment and modern times
Reframing eschatology: understanding the biblical themes of continuity and discontinuity, new creation emerging from the old, and the symbolism of fire
The significance of “Creation Sunday” at the start of September and the new Feast of Creation in Christ, celebrated alongside ecumenical and global churches
Practical ways churches can foster outdoor worship, environmental education, and personal spiritual disciplines connecting with creation
Resources for churches: EcoChurch, A Rocha’s resource hub, recommended books by Ruth Valerio, Richard Borkham, and climate scientist Catherine Hayhoe
The importance of balancing reverence for creation without worshipping it, recognizing both God’s love and the created order Maintaining hope through understanding God’s ultimate plan for renewal, and small actionable steps individuals and congregations can take locally
 
Chapters
00:00 - Intro to EcoTheology
00:27 - Job and creation theology
00:53 - Dave’s eco-conversion
02:37 - A Rocha’s mission
03:55 - Church awakening to creation care
09:02 - Eschatology and stewardship
12:31 - Resurrection and new creation
28:37 - Feast of Creation in Christ
44:29 - Practical resources for churches
52:10 - Hope, action, and local impact
Show notes:
A Rocha International and A Rocha UK resources, including the EcoChurch scheme and training programs
https://ecochurch.arocha.org.uk/
https://arocha.org/en/
https://arocha.org.uk/
Books by Ruth Valerio, Richard Borkham, and climate scientist Catherine Hayhoe Websites: www.feastofcreation.com
www.seasonofcreation.org
Visit www.rootsforchurches.com for more resources, insights, and ways to engage your community in creation care.

Melanie Cave talks with Dr. Andrew Ollerton about how to understand violent and judgmental passages in the Old Testament, including the conquest narratives, the plagues, and commands that trouble modern readers. They give historical and theological context, distinguish descriptive from prescriptive texts, and explain how these stories point toward Christ and the new covenant.
Practical and pastoral, the episode equips preachers, youth leaders and curious seekers to discuss these difficult passages honestly, compassionately, and in community.
Main Topics Covered:
The rise in interest and search for the Bible during COVID-19 and its implications
How to interpret violent narratives in the Old Testament within their ancient cultural context
The difference between descriptive and prescriptive elements of biblical violence
The theological significance of God's justice and the shift from Old to New Covenant
Navigating the difficult themes of judgment, wrath, and divine justice in preaching
Christ as the fulfillment and resolution of Old Testament violence stories
Practical ways to approach these passages in church sermons and community discussions
The importance of engaging multiple perspectives and cultural contexts for biblical understanding
The role of grace, humility, and honesty when addressing God's judgment today
An emphasis on understanding biblical violence through layered interpretations: literal, spiritual, and Christological, respecting the historical context and Scripture’s divine narrative.
Chapters:
00:00 - Why interest in the Bible is increasing despite secular declines
02:13 - Exploring the prevalence of violence in Old Testament stories
04:26 - The cultural and historical context behind conquest narratives
09:06 - Understanding the ancient Near East cultural backdrop
16:15 - Reframing Jericho and Canaanite warfare historically and archaeologically
26:31 - The biblical view of divine judgment and justice
28:24 - The challenging nature of the Passover plagues and divine wrath
32:40 - Jesus’ pacifist example versus Old Testament violence
36:17 - The ‘old covenant’ versus ‘new covenant’ distinction explaining God's changing ways
44:29 - The pointing to Jesus in Old Testament stories and their unresolved tension
47:24 - Addressing the church's role in preaching justice and judgment with humility
51:38 - The importance of honest conversations about difficult topics for young and older generations
52:42 - Resources for exploring these themes in churches, including books and discussion guides
Show notes
Andrews Book: God's book: An honest look at the Bible's 7 toughest topics
Small group discussion resources
Roots Articles
Dr Andrew Ollerton: When the Bible Gets Violent Three ways to preach on difficult passages 
Dr Jared Neusch: Why you don't have to pass over the Passover with childen
www.rootsforchurches.com

Melanie Cave interviews Andrea Campanale about the rising spiritual hunger in Gen Z and how churches can respond with curiosity, friendship and empathy.
Andrea shares stories from New Age and green fairs, fresh expressions of church, and practical ways to disciple seekers who practise manifesting, crystals, tarot and other spiritualities.
The episode explores embodied worship, addressing shame and powerlessness, reclaiming Christian spiritual practices, and resourcing leaders to engage this generation with compassion and creativity.
Key Topics
Andrea’s background in church leadership and her spiritual experiences and how they opened her eyes to the culture of spirituality outside the church
The shift from viewing new age practices as threats to opportunities for sharing faith
Practical ways to engage with spiritual seekers at fairs, festivals, and community events
Discipleship journeys focusing on discernment of the Holy Spirit versus other spirits
Engaging culture through arts, embodied prayer, and experiential activities
Encouraging participation and multi-sensory engagement in church and outreach
Understanding and navigating contemporary spiritual practices like manifesting, crystals, and witchcraft
The importance of biblical stories, saints, and role models to inspire faith and challenge cultural narratives
Addressing fears around spiritual practices rooted in superstition or demonic influence
Reimagining the church’s role in healing shame, building relationships, and restoring divine image through community
Timestamps
00:00 - Introducing Andrea and the focus on Gen Z's spiritual openness02:00 - Andrea’s personal background and early frustrations with evangelism03:05 - How her friend’s spiritual experience challenged her perspective04:30 - Recognizing culture’s interest in spirituality as an open door05:50 - Moving into ministry at New Age fairs and community events07:00 - Sharing stories of prayer walks, encounters with alternative spiritualists, and the fruit of outreach08:40 - Fruit of engaging with spiritual seekers: faith coming alive and discipleship that discerns spirits10:00 - The cultural shift: more openness to spiritual conversations today than 20 years ago11:15 - Making sense of spiritual practices alongside biblical truth12:30 - Addressing the black-and-white view of spirits and spiritual dangers13:45 - Overcoming fear and cultivating compassionate curiosity15:00 - The natural vs spiritual worldview: sickness, trauma, and spiritual openness16:20 - Recognizing God’s activity in visions, dreams, and culture17:30 - The biblical basis: Paul on the unknown God and cultural engagement18:50 - Balancing tolerance with evangelism in diverse spiritual environments19:50 - Protecting oneself through prayer and faith in Jesus’ power21:00 - Walking alongside cultural differences: justice, attitudes, and the mission of the church22:20 - The church’s role in rediscovering spiritual practices and ritual23:30 - Participating in experiential, arts-based, and embodied worship practices24:50 - Reaching beyond event-specific stalls to a welcoming church culture27:00 - Addressing accessibility through creative worship for diverse learners28:20 - Appreciating the creative wisdom of God in art, labyrinths, and symbols29:15 - Exploring contemporary spiritual practices like manifesting, crystals, and angel numbers30:30 - Engaging in conversations about manifestation and prayer. 33:00 - The importance of biblical stories, saints, and inspirational heroes in faith formation35:00 - The role of cultural symbols, Celtic traditions, and indigenous practices as pointers to God37:00 - Moving beyond fear: witchcraft, Wicca, and the spiritual quest for power and identity38:45 - The rise of witchcraft on social media and how to respond thoughtfully39:50 - The underlying drivers of spiritual seeking: powerlessness, trauma, and the search for meaning42:00 - Comparing the stories of saints with the narratives competing in the spiritual marketplace43:45 - Addressing gendered spirituality and the search for divine feminine44:50 - The challenge of biblical language: shifting from male-centered to a more inclusive understanding of God47:00 - Resources for deeper learning and engagement in spiritual conversations48:15 - The importance of trauma-informed church models and addressing shame in spiritual seekers50:00 - How the gospel restores relationship, dignity, and community beyond guilt and shame52:00 - Reframing evangelism around shame, honour, and divine empowerment54:00 - Jesus’ approach to shame and healing—restoring reputation and relationship56:00 - The church’s need to model genuine love and community to attract those searching for belonging57:00 - Final encouragement: engaging culture with curiosity, truth, and love
Resources & Links
Eden People Guildford – Engaging with spiritual environments
Church Mission Society - Mission to the Spiritual but Not Religious
Missional Conversations by Colin Smith & Cathy Ross 
The 3D Gospel – Exploring gospel themes through guilt, shame, honor, and power
www.rootsforchurches.com
Good Vibrations resource from Roots
Reimagining Evangelism Article Series

Melanie Cave and Dr. Henna Cundill explore predestination, suffering, free will, and how to pastor people through hard questions with honesty, hope, and trust in God. Starting with the story of Joseph forgiving his brothers, they discuss what it teaches us about predestination, God’s knowledge and the problem of suffering.  They explore biblical tensions between God’s plans and human freedom and how scripture models lament, discernment and hope.
The episode offers pastoral guidance for talking with young people and congregations—how to sit with pain compassionately, help people find meaning in hardship, and balance theological ideas about God’s sovereignty with everyday decision-making and emotional health.
Key Topics
Joseph’s story and the theme of divine purpose Scripture, predestination, and free will
Why suffering is so hard to understand The importance of lament and emotional honesty
Why platitudes can be unhelpful
How to discern God’s guidance in real life
Trusting God’s character in uncertainty
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to predestination and suffering
02:05 Biblical wrestling with God’s sovereignty
04:04 Joseph, Psalm 139, and God’s plan
04:55 God changing course in Exodus 32
05:20 Omniscience, predestination, and free will
08:53 Finding meaning in suffering
10:00 Romans 8 and God working for good
11:27 Why platitudes can hurt 1
4:20 Lament and emotional honesty
16:53 Joseph and discernment
20:17 God’s plan and daily decisions
26:54 Jeremiah 29:11 and exile
29:09 Guidance through life choices
35:56 Subtle and dramatic callings
37:55 Trusting God in suffering
41:59 Signs of Jesus’ love in pain
42:42 Hope rooted in Jesus’ suffering and resurrection
 
Resources
Henna Cundill’s article on predestination 
Amy Orr Ewing's book "Where is God in all the suffering?" 
Shelley Rambo "Spirit and Trauma: A Theology of remaining." 
Henna’s But... Bible Studies series which includes a set of studies for young people on 'Why do bad things happen to good people?' 

Three to five percent of the population has autism, so many church communities include autistic members. In this episode Melanie Cave speaks with Dr. Henna Cundill, a youth worker, minister and researcher at the Centre for Autism and Theology, about her book and PhD research on autism and prayer. They discuss how neurodiversity affects prayer, social anxiety, masking, rule-following, and practical ways churches can foster belonging rather than just passive welcome.
 
Dr. Cundill explains why diagnoses have increased, the overlap with other neurodivergences like ADHD and dyslexia, and why a diagnosis can provide access to support and community. They explore how church culture and unconscious rules can create barriers, why routines and sensory needs matter, and how personal relationships and empathy — not checklists — are key to inclusion. Resources from the Centre and Roots are shared to help churches take practical steps toward greater accessibility and belonging.
 
Keywords
autism, neurodiversity, church inclusion, prayer, faith, mental health, community, support, autism and theology
 
Key Topics
Autism prevalence and diagnosis changes
Neurodiversity and church inclusion
The complexity of prayer for autistic individuals
The role of social scripts and routines in church life
The importance of empathy and relational connection in supporting neurodivergent members
Sound Bites
'3 to 5% of the population has autism'
'Prayer is as natural as breathing'
'Social anxiety fills the space between us'
Chapters
00:00 Exploring the Intersection of Autism and Faith
04:29 The Changing Landscape of Autism Awareness
11:56 The Importance of Diagnosis and Identity
17:48 Understanding Prayer Through an Autistic Lens
26:32 The Intersection of Faith and Capitalism
28:02 Rethinking Daily Routines in Spiritual Practices
29:28 Diversity in Worship and Expression
31:17 Understanding Neurodivergence in Church Settings
33:08 Flexibility in Spiritual Practices
34:22 The Role of Community in Spiritual Well-being
37:22 Building Relationships in Church
41:52 Navigating Preferences and Needs in Worship
46:36 The Importance of Individual Needs in Church Community
51:23 Understanding Neurodiversity in Church Settings
53:12 Roots' Commitment to Inclusive Resources
 
Show Notes
Henna's Autism and Prayer book: https://scmpress.hymnsam.co.uk/books/9780334067221/praying-by-the-rules
The Centre's Neurodiversity and Faith Series: https://www.abdn.ac.uk/dhpa/research/centres/centre-for-autism-and-theology/neurodiversity-and-faith-series/ (More titles to be added at the end of July 2026) 
 
Roots articles and podcasts supporting Neurodiversity
Sensory Healthy Church
https://www.rootsontheweb.com/worship-and-learning-support/articles/sensory-healthy-church
 
Emotionally Based School Refusal https://www.rootsontheweb.com/worship-and-learning-support/articles/i-dont-want-to-go-back-to-school
 
Supporting Children and Young People with ADHD
https://www.rootsontheweb.com/worship-and-learning-support/articles/supporting-yp-with-adhd
 
Going beyond Inclusion https://www.rootsontheweb.com/worship-and-learning-support/articles/going-beyond-inclusion
 
Roots Visual Timetable for churches https://www.rootsontheweb.com/vt