The Roots for Churches podcast

Melanie Cave speaks with Peter about his book Collaborative Sermons and the Living Stories approach to preaching, where sermons become facilitated conversations rather than one-way monologues. They explore how this emerged from St. Gregory of Nyssa Episcopal Church in San Francisco, why it fits intergenerational worship, and how it changes what a congregation can hear, remember, and carry into the week. They also discuss trust, authority, silence, children’s contributions, and how to keep the conversation open without losing theological depth or pastoral care.
Key topics
In this episode, Peter shares the backstory of Living Stories, which began during the pandemic when his parish regathered through Godly Play and Eucharist in a parking lot. The sermon format moved from children’s formation into adult Sunday worship by using the actual lectionary text, wondering questions, and visual anchors for the whole congregation. Melanie and Peter unpack what makes a sermon a conversation rather than a monologue, and why that requires the preacher to become a facilitator instead of an orator. Peter explains the importance of mirroring back what people say so quieter voices, especially children, are heard clearly and valued in the room. They discuss how to respond to off-base, strange, or theologically awkward comments without shutting people down, but instead gently “retraining the vine.” Children’s contributions are presented as a strength, not a distraction, because they often give adults fresher, more visceral ways to hear Scripture. The conversation frames intergenerational worship as radical hospitality, especially in light of Jesus’ teaching about welcoming children. Peter argues that collaborative preaching answers modern suspicion of institutional authority by leaning into relational authority and shared discernment. They talk through the learning curve for churches, including how to start with turn-and-talk, wondering questions, and experimental Sundays. Peter also addresses practical concerns like phones, AI, analog worship spaces, visibility, microphones, and when not to rely on screens.
Chapters
00:00 - Why Peter was invited and what Living Stories is
00:38 - Pandemic beginnings at St. Gregory of Nyssa and the parking lot Eucharist
02:04 - From experimentation to a named sermon practice
03:13 - What Godly Play looks like in adult Sunday worship
04:06 - Using the lectionary text and tailoring wondering questions
05:29 - Why the questions begin with empathy and move toward theological reflection
06:23 - How multiple good-news takeaways deepen connection in the congregation
07:39 - Sermon as conversation instead of monologue
08:41 - The preacher’s shift from orator to facilitator
09:11 - Trusting local congregations to adapt the scripts
Key frameworks
Living Stories - Peter’s collaborative sermon format built around wondering questions and shared interpretation.
Wondering questions - Open questions that move from empathy to reflection to personal and communal takeaway.
Trust - Trusting scripture, the congregation, and the Holy Spirit rather than controlling the outcome.
Relational authority - Authority grounded in relationship and facilitation rather than institutional status alone.
Radical hospitality - Treating children and adults alike as full participants in worship.
 
Show Notes
www.rootsforchurches.com
To buy Peter's book: UK: https://www.eden.co.uk/christian-books/the-church/preaching/collaborative-sermons-a-guide-to-authentic-interactive-worship-through-living-stories/
In Australia: https://www.dymocks.com.au/collaborative-sermons-by-peter-levenstrong-9781640659193
In North America: https://churchpublishing.org/products/9781640659193-collaborative-sermons
 

Melanie Cave speaks with the Reverend Dr. Dave Bookless about the new Feast of Creation in Christ (Creation Sunday), the church’s environmental conversion, and how scripture and theology can inspire faithful stewardship of the planet.
They discuss the history of creation care in the church, biblical perspectives on new creation and eschatology, practical ways churches can celebrate and engage during Creation Time, and how to sustain hope and local impact amid climate fatigue.
Discover how the church can deepen its connection to environmental stewardship and explore practical steps for integrating creation care into faith.
Key topics
Dave’s personal eco-conversion experience sparked by a moment on a small island questioning how God might feel about human impact on the earth
The biblical basis for eco-theology, highlighting the book of Job’s creation theology and the importance of understanding our dependence on creation
The global growth of A Rocha since 1983, blending conservation efforts with teaching the church about biblical environmental responsibility
The historical shift in church focus from creation to personal salvation during the Enlightenment and modern times
Reframing eschatology: understanding the biblical themes of continuity and discontinuity, new creation emerging from the old, and the symbolism of fire
The significance of “Creation Sunday” at the start of September and the new Feast of Creation in Christ, celebrated alongside ecumenical and global churches
Practical ways churches can foster outdoor worship, environmental education, and personal spiritual disciplines connecting with creation
Resources for churches: EcoChurch, A Rocha’s resource hub, recommended books by Ruth Valerio, Richard Borkham, and climate scientist Catherine Hayhoe
The importance of balancing reverence for creation without worshipping it, recognizing both God’s love and the created order Maintaining hope through understanding God’s ultimate plan for renewal, and small actionable steps individuals and congregations can take locally
 
Chapters
00:00 - Intro to EcoTheology
00:27 - Job and creation theology
00:53 - Dave’s eco-conversion
02:37 - A Rocha’s mission
03:55 - Church awakening to creation care
09:02 - Eschatology and stewardship
12:31 - Resurrection and new creation
28:37 - Feast of Creation in Christ
44:29 - Practical resources for churches
52:10 - Hope, action, and local impact
Show notes:
A Rocha International and A Rocha UK resources, including the EcoChurch scheme and training programs
https://ecochurch.arocha.org.uk/
https://arocha.org/en/
https://arocha.org.uk/
Books by Ruth Valerio, Richard Borkham, and climate scientist Catherine Hayhoe Websites: www.feastofcreation.com
www.seasonofcreation.org
Visit www.rootsforchurches.com for more resources, insights, and ways to engage your community in creation care.

Melanie Cave talks with Dr. Andrew Ollerton about how to understand violent and judgmental passages in the Old Testament, including the conquest narratives, the plagues, and commands that trouble modern readers. They give historical and theological context, distinguish descriptive from prescriptive texts, and explain how these stories point toward Christ and the new covenant.
Practical and pastoral, the episode equips preachers, youth leaders and curious seekers to discuss these difficult passages honestly, compassionately, and in community.
Main Topics Covered:
The rise in interest and search for the Bible during COVID-19 and its implications
How to interpret violent narratives in the Old Testament within their ancient cultural context
The difference between descriptive and prescriptive elements of biblical violence
The theological significance of God's justice and the shift from Old to New Covenant
Navigating the difficult themes of judgment, wrath, and divine justice in preaching
Christ as the fulfillment and resolution of Old Testament violence stories
Practical ways to approach these passages in church sermons and community discussions
The importance of engaging multiple perspectives and cultural contexts for biblical understanding
The role of grace, humility, and honesty when addressing God's judgment today
An emphasis on understanding biblical violence through layered interpretations: literal, spiritual, and Christological, respecting the historical context and Scripture’s divine narrative.
Chapters:
00:00 - Why interest in the Bible is increasing despite secular declines
02:13 - Exploring the prevalence of violence in Old Testament stories
04:26 - The cultural and historical context behind conquest narratives
09:06 - Understanding the ancient Near East cultural backdrop
16:15 - Reframing Jericho and Canaanite warfare historically and archaeologically
26:31 - The biblical view of divine judgment and justice
28:24 - The challenging nature of the Passover plagues and divine wrath
32:40 - Jesus’ pacifist example versus Old Testament violence
36:17 - The ‘old covenant’ versus ‘new covenant’ distinction explaining God's changing ways
44:29 - The pointing to Jesus in Old Testament stories and their unresolved tension
47:24 - Addressing the church's role in preaching justice and judgment with humility
51:38 - The importance of honest conversations about difficult topics for young and older generations
52:42 - Resources for exploring these themes in churches, including books and discussion guides
Show notes
Andrews Book: God's book: An honest look at the Bible's 7 toughest topics
Small group discussion resources
Roots Articles
Dr Andrew Ollerton: When the Bible Gets Violent Three ways to preach on difficult passages 
Dr Jared Neusch: Why you don't have to pass over the Passover with childen
www.rootsforchurches.com

Melanie Cave interviews Andrea Campanale about the rising spiritual hunger in Gen Z and how churches can respond with curiosity, friendship and empathy.
Andrea shares stories from New Age and green fairs, fresh expressions of church, and practical ways to disciple seekers who practice manifesting, crystals, tarot and other spiritualities.
The episode explores embodied worship, addressing shame and powerlessness, reclaiming Christian spiritual practices, and resourcing leaders to engage this generation with compassion and creativity.
Key Topics
Andrea’s background in church leadership and her spiritual experiences and how they opened her eyes to the culture of spirituality outside the church
The shift from viewing new age practices as threats to opportunities for sharing faith
Practical ways to engage with spiritual seekers at fairs, festivals, and community events
Discipleship journeys focusing on discernment of the Holy Spirit versus other spirits
Engaging culture through arts, embodied prayer, and experiential activities
Encouraging participation and multi-sensory engagement in church and outreach
Understanding and navigating contemporary spiritual practices like manifesting, crystals, and witchcraft
The importance of biblical stories, saints, and role models to inspire faith and challenge cultural narratives
Addressing fears around spiritual practices rooted in superstition or demonic influence
Reimagining the church’s role in healing shame, building relationships, and restoring divine image through community
Timestamps
00:00 - Introducing Andrea and the focus on Gen Z's spiritual openness02:00 - Andrea’s personal background and early frustrations with evangelism03:05 - How her friend’s spiritual experience challenged her perspective04:30 - Recognizing culture’s interest in spirituality as an open door05:50 - Moving into ministry at New Age fairs and community events07:00 - Sharing stories of prayer walks, encounters with alternative spiritualists, and the fruit of outreach08:40 - Fruit of engaging with spiritual seekers: faith coming alive and discipleship that discerns spirits10:00 - The cultural shift: more openness to spiritual conversations today than 20 years ago11:15 - Making sense of spiritual practices alongside biblical truth12:30 - Addressing the black-and-white view of spirits and spiritual dangers13:45 - Overcoming fear and cultivating compassionate curiosity15:00 - The natural vs spiritual worldview: sickness, trauma, and spiritual openness16:20 - Recognizing God’s activity in visions, dreams, and culture17:30 - The biblical basis: Paul on the unknown God and cultural engagement18:50 - Balancing tolerance with evangelism in diverse spiritual environments19:50 - Protecting oneself through prayer and faith in Jesus’ power21:00 - Walking alongside cultural differences: justice, attitudes, and the mission of the church22:20 - The church’s role in rediscovering spiritual practices and ritual23:30 - Participating in experiential, arts-based, and embodied worship practices24:50 - Reaching beyond event-specific stalls to a welcoming church culture27:00 - Addressing accessibility through creative worship for diverse learners28:20 - Appreciating the creative wisdom of God in art, labyrinths, and symbols29:15 - Exploring contemporary spiritual practices like manifesting, crystals, and angel numbers30:30 - Engaging in conversations about manifestation and prayer. 33:00 - The importance of biblical stories, saints, and inspirational heroes in faith formation35:00 - The role of cultural symbols, Celtic traditions, and indigenous practices as pointers to God37:00 - Moving beyond fear: witchcraft, Wicca, and the spiritual quest for power and identity38:45 - The rise of witchcraft on social media and how to respond thoughtfully39:50 - The underlying drivers of spiritual seeking: powerlessness, trauma, and the search for meaning42:00 - Comparing the stories of saints with the narratives competing in the spiritual marketplace43:45 - Addressing gendered spirituality and the search for divine feminine44:50 - The challenge of biblical language: shifting from male-centered to a more inclusive understanding of God47:00 - Resources for deeper learning and engagement in spiritual conversations48:15 - The importance of trauma-informed church models and addressing shame in spiritual seekers50:00 - How the gospel restores relationship, dignity, and community beyond guilt and shame52:00 - Reframing evangelism around shame, honor, and divine empowerment54:00 - Jesus’ approach to shame and healing—restoring reputation and relationship56:00 - The church’s need to model genuine love and community to attract those searching for belonging57:00 - Final encouragement: engaging culture with curiosity, truth, and love
Resources & Links
Eden People Guildford – Engaging with spiritual environments
Church Mission Society - Mission to the Spiritual but Not Religious
Missional Conversations by Colin Smith & Cathy Ross 
The 3D Gospel – Exploring gospel themes through guilt, shame, honor, and power
www.rootsforchurches.com
Good Vibrations resource from Roots
Reimagining Evanglism Article Series 
 
 

Melanie Cave and Dr. Henna Cundill explore predestination, suffering, free will, and how to pastor people through hard questions with honesty, hope, and trust in God. Starting with the story of Joseph forgiving his brothers, they discuss what it teaches us about predestination, God’s knowledge and the problem of suffering.  They explore biblical tensions between God’s plans and human freedom and how scripture models lament, discernment and hope.
The episode offers pastoral guidance for talking with young people and congregations—how to sit with pain compassionately, help people find meaning in hardship, and balance theological ideas about God’s sovereignty with everyday decision-making and emotional health.
Key Topics
Joseph’s story and the theme of divine purpose Scripture, predestination, and free will
Why suffering is so hard to understand The importance of lament and emotional honesty
Why platitudes can be unhelpful
How to discern God’s guidance in real life
Trusting God’s character in uncertainty
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to predestination and suffering
02:05 Biblical wrestling with God’s sovereignty
04:04 Joseph, Psalm 139, and God’s plan
04:55 God changing course in Exodus 32
05:20 Omniscience, predestination, and free will
08:53 Finding meaning in suffering
10:00 Romans 8 and God working for good
11:27 Why platitudes can hurt 1
4:20 Lament and emotional honesty
16:53 Joseph and discernment
20:17 God’s plan and daily decisions
26:54 Jeremiah 29:11 and exile
29:09 Guidance through life choices
35:56 Subtle and dramatic callings
37:55 Trusting God in suffering
41:59 Signs of Jesus’ love in pain
42:42 Hope rooted in Jesus’ suffering and resurrection
 
Resources
Henna Cundill’s article on predestination 
Amy Orr Ewing's book "Where is God in all the suffering?" 
Shelley Rambo "Spirit and Trauma: A Theology of remaining." 
Henna’s But... Bible Studies series which includes a set of studies for young people on 'Why do bad things happen to good people?' 

Three to five percent of the population has autism, so many church communities include autistic members. In this episode Melanie Cave speaks with Dr. Henna Cundill, a youth worker, minister and researcher at the Centre for Autism and Theology, about her book and PhD research on autism and prayer. They discuss how neurodiversity affects prayer, social anxiety, masking, rule-following, and practical ways churches can foster belonging rather than just passive welcome.
 
Dr. Cundill explains why diagnoses have increased, the overlap with other neurodivergences like ADHD and dyslexia, and why a diagnosis can provide access to support and community. They explore how church culture and unconscious rules can create barriers, why routines and sensory needs matter, and how personal relationships and empathy — not checklists — are key to inclusion. Resources from the Centre and Roots are shared to help churches take practical steps toward greater accessibility and belonging.
 
Keywords
autism, neurodiversity, church inclusion, prayer, faith, mental health, community, support, autism and theology
 
Key Topics
Autism prevalence and diagnosis changes
Neurodiversity and church inclusion
The complexity of prayer for autistic individuals
The role of social scripts and routines in church life
The importance of empathy and relational connection in supporting neurodivergent members
Sound Bites
'3 to 5% of the population has autism'
'Prayer is as natural as breathing'
'Social anxiety fills the space between us'
Chapters
00:00 Exploring the Intersection of Autism and Faith
04:29 The Changing Landscape of Autism Awareness
11:56 The Importance of Diagnosis and Identity
17:48 Understanding Prayer Through an Autistic Lens
26:32 The Intersection of Faith and Capitalism
28:02 Rethinking Daily Routines in Spiritual Practices
29:28 Diversity in Worship and Expression
31:17 Understanding Neurodivergence in Church Settings
33:08 Flexibility in Spiritual Practices
34:22 The Role of Community in Spiritual Well-being
37:22 Building Relationships in Church
41:52 Navigating Preferences and Needs in Worship
46:36 The Importance of Individual Needs in Church Community
51:23 Understanding Neurodiversity in Church Settings
53:12 Roots' Commitment to Inclusive Resources
 
Show Notes
Henna's Autism and Prayer book: https://scmpress.hymnsam.co.uk/books/9780334067221/praying-by-the-rules
The Centre's Neurodiversity and Faith Series: https://www.abdn.ac.uk/dhpa/research/centres/centre-for-autism-and-theology/neurodiversity-and-faith-series/ (More titles to be added at the end of July 2026) 
 
Roots articles and podcasts supporting Neurodiversity
Sensory Healthy Church
https://www.rootsontheweb.com/worship-and-learning-support/articles/sensory-healthy-church
 
Emotionally Based School Refusal https://www.rootsontheweb.com/worship-and-learning-support/articles/i-dont-want-to-go-back-to-school
 
Supporting Children and Young People with ADHD
https://www.rootsontheweb.com/worship-and-learning-support/articles/supporting-yp-with-adhd
 
Going beyond Inclusion https://www.rootsontheweb.com/worship-and-learning-support/articles/going-beyond-inclusion
 
Roots Visual Timetable for churches https://www.rootsontheweb.com/vt
 
 

Join Melanie Cave and Cameron Lee Hume as they explain how churches can host safe, welcoming solar-eclipse viewing events on August 12, 2026 — a rare opportunity visible across much of the UK. The episode covers practical safety tips, free Methodist resources (posters, planning guides, Canva materials), and ideas for using the eclipse as a gentle gateway to faith conversations.
Learn about the Methodist Day of Outreach, registration for local events, supporting tools like the Conversations Against Mundanity game and the On The Way course, and simple ways to turn a community sky-watching party into ongoing connections and discipleship opportunities.
Keywords
solar eclipse, church outreach, evangelism, faith sharing, community events, Christian resources, Methodist Church, faith conversations, eclipse viewing, evangelism strategy
 
Key Topics
Planning church outreach events around celestial phenomena
Safe viewing methods for solar eclipses
Resources for faith-based outreach during the eclipse
The role of storytelling and testimony in evangelism
Encouraging curiosity and authentic faith conversations
Sound Bites
"Protect your eyes with certified eclipse sunglasses"
"People are more interested in faith than you think"
"Intentionality helps us be more authentic in evangelism"
Chapters
00:00 The Significance of the August Solar Eclipse
03:36 Safe Viewing Practices for the Eclipse
06:04 Church Outreach and the Eclipse
09:07 Evangelism as a Gateway Experience
11:45 Shifting Perspectives on Evangelism
14:29 Overcoming Social Anxiety in Faith Conversations
17:39 The Power of Storytelling in Evangelism
20:16 Intentionality in Faith Conversations
23:01 Using Games to Foster Deeper Conversations
25:41 Navigating Modern Tensions in Evangelism
28:33 The Role of Testimony in Sharing Faith
31:10 Encouraging Authenticity in Faith Sharing
34:19 Preparing for the Solar Eclipse Viewing Party
 
Show Notes
Eclipse Watch Party Resources
https://www.methodist.org.uk/for-churches/evangelism-growth/practise-evangelism/day-of-outreach/
Conversations against Mundanity https://www.methodistpublishing.org.uk/books/9781858525242/conversations-against-mundanity
One the Way Course for https://www.methodist.org.uk/for-churches/evangelism-growth/discipleship-pathways-travelling-together/on-the-way/
Desensitising to rejection podcast https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2hxCRbLAuU&feature=youtu.be
www.rootsforchurches.com

Melanie Cave interviews Anglican priest and family ministry consultant Gail Adcock about the theology and practice of play in church. They explore how play appears in scripture and Jesus’ interactions, the difference between being childlike and childish, and how play can be a spiritual discipline that fosters connection, emotional expression, and wonder.
The episode also covers practical ideas and barriers: sensory activities, storytelling, games and quizzes, intergenerational approaches, adapting church spaces, and leader training. Listeners are offered simple, tested ways to include play in gatherings and encouraged to trust the Spirit as play deepens faith and community.
Explore how play can transform church environments, making faith more accessible, participatory, and joyful for all ages. Gail Adcock shares practical and theological insights on weaving play into church life, discipleship, and intergenerational ministry.
highlights
Why play belongs in Christian faith and formation
The difference between being childish and being childlike
How Jesus models joy, creativity, and openness
Ways play can deepen teaching and learning
Practical ideas for churches with limited space or traditional seating
How playful environments build belonging across generations
Why joy and laughter matter for spiritual health
Chapters
00:00 — Introduction: why play matters in church
00:32 — Meet Gail Adcock and the theme of play as a spiritual discipline 01:16 — Is there play in the Bible?
05:58 — Childish vs. childlike faith
10:24 — Why play helps adults learn
15:20 — Godly Play and open responses to scripture
20:28 — Holding structure and openness together
24:26 — Different kinds of play: stories, games, senses, and quizzes
29:23 — Bringing play into church buildings and traditional spaces
35:00 — Using games as a vehicle for deeper reflection
40:10 — Why theological training needs more play and interaction
44:43 — Adults play too: hobbies, Lego, and community
47:46 — Play, wellbeing, and church as a gathering place
50:26 — Final reflections: play more, embrace joy
Key takeaways
Play is not a distraction from faith formation — it can be a meaningful way to encounter God, ask questions, and build community. The episode argues that churches can become more welcoming and effective when they make room for play, reflection, and participation.
Resources
Roots for Churches: https://rootsforchurches.com
Gail Adcock’s article on the theology of play https://www.rootsontheweb.com/worship-and-learning-support/articles/playful-faith
Ministry Essentials Training https://childrensministrynetwork.org/ministry-essentials/
 

Melanie Cave speaks with Andy Frost of Share Jesus International about making evangelism less intimidating and more practical for churches. They explore starting small — prayer, telling brief personal stories, and ‘dropping the Frisbee’ into conversations — building church cultures of prayer, hosting accessible events, and supporting people to take their next steps in faith.
Andy shares practical ideas, encouragements for leaders, and resources to help congregations become more confident and authentic in sharing the good news.
Key Topics
Comparing evangelism to an ultramarathon: endurance, pacing, and enjoyment
The significance of starting small: prayer, casual conversations, and dropping in faith nuggets
Overcoming the perception that evangelism is hard or only for 'super Christians'
Practical ways to incorporate faith sharing into church routines (small groups, services, events)
The power of prayer and community in cultivating a missional mindset
Using stories, arts, and creative events to introduce the Christian faith 
Recognizing individual and corporate styles of faith sharing
The importance of authenticity, vulnerability, and listening in faith conversations
Simple, effective activities: prayer walks, giving crosses, dropping in questions about God's work in daily life
Encouragement for church leaders to model and facilitate faith sharing confidently
Chapters
00:00 - Evangelism as an ultramarathon02:37 - Why sharing faith feels intimidating03:27 - Starting small with prayer and everyday faith06:03 - Knowing your “why” and sharing naturally08:35 - Building evangelism into church culture11:58 - Creating a prayer culture that lasts15:01 - Responding to tough faith questions20:10 - Asking better questions and praying for people27:02 - Seeing everyday opportunities to serve30:09 - Different styles of sharing faith32:31 - Events, relationships, and the right next step41:35 - Encouragement for church leaders
Resources & Links
Share Jesus International
Faith Sharing Style Quiz
www.rootsforchurches.com

Melanie Cave speaks with Joy and Darren Stevens of Start to Stir about sharing faith with young people who are indifferent or exploring spirituality, manifesting, crystals or witchcraft. They outline a gentle, relationship-based approach: listening well, finding common ground, stirring spiritual curiosity, and pacing conversations over time rather than expecting one-off conversions.
The episode offers practical tips and resources for leaders and teens — simple questions to ask, how to handle church hurt and converstions about power-based spirituality, and tools like short Soul Stirrers videos to open ongoing faith conversations.
They explore new approaches to evangelism, understanding spiritual curiosity, and how to navigate conversations about spirituality and religion with authenticity and compassion.
Keywords
evangelism, faith sharing, spiritual curiosity, church outreach, youth ministry, Christian faith, cultural engagement, spiritual conversations, church hurt, spiritual longings
Key Topics
New approaches to evangelism in modern culture
Understanding spiritual curiosity among young people
Building trust and listening in faith conversations
Sound Bites
'Ask questions, listen, and find common ground.'
'Experience your soul in action.'
'Most of the spiritual growth is slow and steady.'
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to evangelism and personal backgrounds
03:52 Shifting perspectives on sharing faith
06:15 Understanding young people's indifference to faith
09:30 Building trust in faith conversations 1
2:45 Exploring spiritual Curiosity among youth
16:20 Navigating conversations with authenticity
20:10 Addressing church hurt and spiritual longings
24:00 Engaging in cultural conversations with compassion
28:15 Addressing power and witchcraft
31:06 Generational perspectives on spirituality
34:13 Navigating spiritual curiosity in youth
37:16 Equiping young people for faith conversations
41:24 Resources and training for churches
 
Show notes
www.starttostir.com
 @starttostir   @starttostir_de 
www.rootsforchurches.com
'Good Vibrations' Roots resource on mansifesting and spiritual energy (issue 145)
The 3D Gospel by Jason Georges